kiwiez.5162

Both of these sugestions would work too I think. However, this would still leave perma stealthing in the game, despite defanging the build significantly. Would the community at large be happy with thief still having access to perma stealth without it having access to one shot backstabs? Honestly, there's so many counters to stealth now that people don't really have the excuse anymore. Unless people want to discuss toning down defensive and offensive mechanics on other classes, I don't even think we should be touching stealth, frankly, I'd just rather see the change I suggested if we were in a situation where things were gonna get nerfed further. Nerfing an OP build by forcing meaningful choices so you can't have everything in that build creates more viable builds overall (choose for damage or for survival), and is better than nerfing everything and leaving only one viable option that's only half decent. I'm a thief main tho, so there's my bias. Yes, sometimes the simplest solution is the best. If backstab damage of either kind is deemed too high, why not simply reduce THOSE numbers? Whether by tuning down the base damage of MBS/BS or by simply changing Assassin signet so it does not add any power (540 is a lot). In today's WvW there are more than enough tools against stealth users, the "Target painter" being something any player can have in their inventory, and use for only 10 supply for example. The problem is that nerfing base backstab damage isn't healthy for the class as a whole. Daredevil can hit 20k backstabs against glass targets out of nowhere (I've been hit by them myself) and DE can hit 18k on a one malice backstab on the right target, these instant spikes with no warning are usually what people complain about. Deadeye can hit harder with malice, but after you've let the thief build malice it's not exactly a surprise attack anymore, so I'm not considering that for now. If base backstab damage was lowered, daredevil would have no reason to use backstab over vault. Deadeye however would be fine, as it still has the extra damage off malice stacks, so all it loses is the potential for the instant one shot. Assassin's signet turns a 10-13k backstab into a 15-18k backstab all by itself, so to me if there's changes to be made, assassin's signet is where they need to be done. It's comparable to the situation with sic 'em on ranger, deal with the one thing that pushes damage over the top and everything else is actually ok. Changing the signet also has the effect of reducing the absurd AoE damage a glass staff thief can do spamming vault, which I guarantee you is the next thing people would complain about if backstab gets gutted. Again, I'm saying if. I'm only ok with assassin's signet being nerfed/moved if other classes also lose some of their ability to one shot, so the increase in time to kill is global. Deadeye in particular is supposed to have higher single target damage as a trade off for losing steal, but core and deadeye still have to be viable. Got to agree with this tbh, although I find magebane easier to deal with than a competent engi with lock on. Might be a playstyle thing that tho. So if a change "needs" to take place, is not changing/tuning down Assassin Signet the best solution? Re-balancing the one skill that makes MBS/BS damage "over the top" would be the most reasonable solution i would imagine.

Both of these sugestions would work too I think. However, this would still leave perma stealthing in the game, despite defanging the build significantly. Would the community at large be happy with thief still having access to perma stealth without it having access to one shot backstabs? Honestly, there's so many counters to stealth now that people don't really have the excuse anymore. Unless people want to discuss toning down defensive and offensive mechanics on other classes, I don't even think we should be touching stealth, frankly, I'd just rather see the change I suggested if we were in a situation where things were gonna get nerfed further. Nerfing an OP build by forcing meaningful choices so you can't have everything in that build creates more viable builds overall (choose for damage or for survival), and is better than nerfing everything and leaving only one viable option that's only half decent. I'm a thief main tho, so there's my bias. Yes, sometimes the simplest solution is the best. If backstab damage of either kind is deemed too high, why not simply reduce THOSE numbers? Whether by tuning down the base damage of MBS/BS or by simply changing Assassin signet so it does not add any power (540 is a lot). In today's WvW there are more than enough tools against stealth users, the "Target painter" being something any player can have in their inventory, and use for only 10 supply for example.