GeneralFailure.3402

Can't hold a node vs anyone with a brain and loses any even fights against same people. same reason you don't mass scout units in an RTS. and this scout unit (condi thief) is slower, has less evades, and not so on demand access to stealth as you need to hit an enemy, than power d/p. So why it is bad if does more burst damage? Which by the way can be easily negated by blocks, evades, projectile deflect.

if thief is so OP plz nerf, why are peple not happy where there are two of them on their team? even condi onesunlike revsunlike guardsunlike necrosunlike rangers realy makes you think

s/d can run signet of agility for 3 cleanse and ofc shadowstep for 3 more, add in D/D on dodge trait and honestly it doesnt look as bad for s/d anymore does it.thief peeps just dont give a kitten about experimenting much, they will stick to whats working for them and spam the same 2 buttons all game every game and then complain they dont have many options, while in truth they just refuse to consider them I've tried it, it doesn't work. If you don't have spammable stealth you cannot survive or do your role in any fight. You need to IMMEDIATELY signet + blinding powder the second a condi thief opens on you. S/d is not a bad weapon, and overall is perfectly playable outside of condi thief on the enemy team making you hate your life. D/P might hard counter S/D but that could be a l2p issue from me, however, Condi thief is just completely impossible to deal with. You also get into situations where you absolutely NEED to 1v1 a condi thief, and you just simply CANNOT as s/d. All the blinds from d/p make it a lot easier to deal with condi, but s/d lacks the tools to deal with what condi thief does. The issue is condi thief, not s/d. You are technically right thief has 3 good builds which is far and above anything any other class has. so wrong, I have less cleanse then this S/D build on mesmer aka -> plasma dispenser and I can deal with them.as I said, you reach for easy solution, instead of cleansing the burst and giving a thief fair fight you would rather stealth for 20s and never even give an option to be attacked 90% of the game.Some stealth is fine, but the ridiculous amounts that d/p gets just makes the players that play it never improve, and if they finally swap builds they think that other builds are bad because now you have to actually fight people that hit you back.I am no pro, but I have much easier time with mesmers on S/D than on P/D. IMO thats because your illusions act as meat shield that can bodyblock lot of shots (condi applications) and since pistol shots have no cleave the damge is wasted on illusions that just get in the way. S/D does not have this issue as its attack cleave ( 2 or 3 targets) so even if attack gets bodyblocked by illusion it will still hit intended target. Also plasma makes sword AA realy good.

To set my perspective, I play on EU currently in gold2 and i think my ceiling is gold3, also I have started with this game about four months ago.And no not realy. Of course there are cases of "you suck" or "our thief sucks" but nothing I would consider abusive, especialy when I realized that I was stuck fighting mid instead of decaping :) So thief being favourite scapegoat is part of folklore of the game. In DoTA you blame support xD And how I deal with it. If I realy do play bad I try to play better. If I play good and we still loosing I just ignore it. If the other person is realy mad I reply with lol umad and let them rage because why should I care. However, in most cases I dont have time to read chat anyway, because I am too busy playing the game.

Condi thief doesn't have spammable stealth. Where do people get this from? ..dagger 5 Well P/D rotation after steal is usually going to be Shadow Strike followed by repeater which is 6 initiative. So out of 15 initiative that leaves them with 9. That is provided they hit their shadow strike, and also dont use dancing dagger. At best they can use it once IF IT HITS for a lousy 3 seconds of steal which they will make use out of with sneak attack which debuffs them with reveal and leaves them with little to 0 initiative. BUT WAIT IF SHADOW STRIKE HITS ARENT THEY OUT OF MELEE RANGE? WHY YES THEY ARE! Which renders CnD completely useless as a way to access stealth. TL;DR you are so hilariously wrong. ...i don't need you to teach me how to p/d thief Duh. Nobody needs to teach anybody how to p/d thief, because it's one of the easiest thief builds to play. But he's still correct, that's not a stealth spam. I think P\D is easier than other thief builds even if not focused on conditions. Mainly because it is ranged dps. I don't have to go to melee range and eat all those AoEs on the ground and I can do damage while kiting.Stealth spam that's more like Deadeye. Or Dragon hunter or Ranger with trapper rune.

Nerf threads are OK. But we need to buff buff threads

good old gauss distribution with peak on silver3/gold1

What? besides ocassional "you all suck, fuck you im afk" I didn't really noticed anything bad. Howere truth is I am too busy actually playing the game so I pay very little attention to the chat window

Yes, a l2p issue. Sure. Your post is literally full of stupid assumptions. As I mentionned already (but you didn't read that) I am, shocker shocker,a thief that does NOT use your kitten shortbow. No sir! And my shadowstep is on CD because I used it to reach close fast. But I bet you're some master thief, just LAUGHING your kitten off at players that can't even run after you! They just took your points and they're laughing at you back, but hey, at least you can come here and calling others noobs for not playing with your copy-paste metabattle shortbow build. Just l2p! 1) If you had shortbow and they sent 3 people to your close, you could have zipped out of there and snowball rest of the map..then gone back and reclaimed your close2) Playing a thief without shortbow in PvP..it's like playing an ele with staff or a ranger without GS...don't blame the game for your lack of wisdow, every class must be played to its strength..not some lore background3) If you don't to play +1 decapper/burst then play something that suits your style You are literally a troll. Play thief, don't talk to me until you do. He is right, you know. If I see two or more enemies approaching cap I am standing on I am noping out of there with my short bow like there is no tomorrow. While I am noping out I try to +1 my team on mid or where ever it is needed. Then I come back to from where I was chased out and it is usually unguarded. If there is only one I am more often then not able to hold my ground with the help of my fellow thieves (guild of thieves). Exactly and that's where thiefs strengths lie. Other classes cant just leave relatively safely like thief when being approached by to other opponents and are usually 1v2 while trying to escape and destroyed lol.This would be the best play even if thorf had a better burst potential.I think what find is the issue is if thief as a decapper/+1 burst class if ur +1ing with ur teammate and with both attacking the opponent it still takes a long time to down that opponent that should ring some bells toward either the sustain of the opponents or the burst potential of the class +1ing.Not saying thief needs a burst buff just that something needs to be looked at if those scenarios are occurring frequently. @Psycoprophet.8107 said: Yes, a l2p issue. Sure. Your post is literally full of stupid assumptions. As I mentionned already (but you didn't read that) I am, shocker shocker,a thief that does NOT use your kitten shortbow. No sir! And my shadowstep is on CD because I used it to reach close fast. But I bet you're some master thief, just LAUGHING your kitten off at players that can't even run after you! They just took your points and they're laughing at you back, but hey, at least you can come here and calling others noobs for not playing with your copy-paste metabattle shortbow build. Just l2p! 1) If you had shortbow and they sent 3 people to your close, you could have zipped out of there and snowball rest of the map..then gone back and reclaimed your close2) Playing a thief without shortbow in PvP..it's like playing an ele with staff or a ranger without GS...don't blame the game for your lack of wisdow, every class must be played to its strength..not some lore background3) If you don't to play +1 decapper/burst then play something that suits your style You are literally a troll. Play thief, don't talk to me until you do. He is right, you know. If I see two or more enemies approaching cap I am standing on I am noping out of there with my short bow like there is no tomorrow. While I am noping out I try to +1 my team on mid or where ever it is needed. Then I come back to from where I was chased out and it is usually unguarded. If there is only one I am more often then not able to hold my ground with the help of my fellow thieves (guild of thieves). Exactly and that's where thiefs strengths lie. Other classes cant just leave relatively safely like thief when being approached by to other opponents and are usually 1v2 while trying to escape and destroyed lol.This would be the best play even if thorf had a better burst potential.I think what find is the issue is if thief as a decapper/+1 burst class if ur +1ing with ur teammate and with both attacking the opponent it still takes a long time to down that opponent that should ring some bells toward either the sustain of the opponents or the burst potential of the class +1ing.Not saying thief needs a burst buff just that something needs to be looked at if those scenarios are occurring frequently. If they can't escape then they need enough sustain to wait for reinforcements , you are right saying that the wait aka time to kill cannot be too long for balance reasons obviously but that doesn't change the fact that sustain is necessary for some classes to counterbalance their inability to escape safely as a thief. If a spec invested in sustain then it should survive for enough time, say...40s...if now it's 1m+ then we need to reduce the sustain of such specs to reasonable levels and lower the kill time to 40s from 1m+, I hope thieves are not asking to lower the kill time to 0s like insta kill the +1 player even if he has full CD No atleast not me but then again I'm more of a rev/war player now but when I was playing thief i never wanted sustain or sustained damage as a option cuz that goes against the class type and so does it 1v1 a sustain class quick and easily given its mobility it should be at a disadvantage in a 1v1 as far as actually dueling the more sustain type class. What I wanted is if I avoid most attacks on say a necro etc being as doesn't take many to down a thief I shouldn't have to hit the reaper 30+ times to down it due to its sustain. I understand a thief shouldn't be able to match blows and it should be a requirement that the thief connects more hits on its opponent to down it than it could receive but as of now the disparity is far to great. I can fight a necro 2 mins only get hit twice and all that time be connecting my skills on the necro while its sustain absorbs it for the 2 minutes until it finally gets worse down. Yeah that's the way it should go but the time to ware the necro or other classes down needs to be shorter. This then translates to the issue where a thief +1's for its teammates and still takes a while to down the opponent even tho ur 2v1 it due to the fact thief's dps bursts are out of line next to the current levels of sustain. I would hope and don't think these thief players are asking for a return of one shots So reducing the time to kill for thief would translate to an increase in "duelling" abilities am I right?I gues it would translate to reducing current over the top sustain abilities of others like guards, holos, necros and of course those @#$%@* rangers. Basically what Vallun said in his video. Thief is not that bad, the sustain and damage of others (mentioned) while having so much sustain is what is currently wrong.

Yes, a l2p issue. Sure. Your post is literally full of stupid assumptions. As I mentionned already (but you didn't read that) I am, shocker shocker,a thief that does NOT use your kitten shortbow. No sir! And my shadowstep is on CD because I used it to reach close fast. But I bet you're some master thief, just LAUGHING your kitten off at players that can't even run after you! They just took your points and they're laughing at you back, but hey, at least you can come here and calling others noobs for not playing with your copy-paste metabattle shortbow build. Just l2p! 1) If you had shortbow and they sent 3 people to your close, you could have zipped out of there and snowball rest of the map..then gone back and reclaimed your close2) Playing a thief without shortbow in PvP..it's like playing an ele with staff or a ranger without GS...don't blame the game for your lack of wisdow, every class must be played to its strength..not some lore background3) If you don't to play +1 decapper/burst then play something that suits your style You are literally a troll. Play thief, don't talk to me until you do. He is right, you know. If I see two or more enemies approaching cap I am standing on I am noping out of there with my short bow like there is no tomorrow. While I am noping out I try to +1 my team on mid or where ever it is needed. Then I come back to from where I was chased out and it is usually unguarded. If there is only one I am more often then not able to hold my ground with the help of my fellow thieves (guild of thieves). Exactly and that's where thiefs strengths lie. Other classes cant just leave relatively safely like thief when being approached by to other opponents and are usually 1v2 while trying to escape and destroyed lol.This would be the best play even if thorf had a better burst potential.I think what find is the issue is if thief as a decapper/+1 burst class if ur +1ing with ur teammate and with both attacking the opponent it still takes a long time to down that opponent that should ring some bells toward either the sustain of the opponents or the burst potential of the class +1ing.Not saying thief needs a burst buff just that something needs to be looked at if those scenarios are occurring frequently. @Psycoprophet.8107 said: Yes, a l2p issue. Sure. Your post is literally full of stupid assumptions. As I mentionned already (but you didn't read that) I am, shocker shocker,a thief that does NOT use your kitten shortbow. No sir! And my shadowstep is on CD because I used it to reach close fast. But I bet you're some master thief, just LAUGHING your kitten off at players that can't even run after you! They just took your points and they're laughing at you back, but hey, at least you can come here and calling others noobs for not playing with your copy-paste metabattle shortbow build. Just l2p! 1) If you had shortbow and they sent 3 people to your close, you could have zipped out of there and snowball rest of the map..then gone back and reclaimed your close2) Playing a thief without shortbow in PvP..it's like playing an ele with staff or a ranger without GS...don't blame the game for your lack of wisdow, every class must be played to its strength..not some lore background3) If you don't to play +1 decapper/burst then play something that suits your style You are literally a troll. Play thief, don't talk to me until you do. He is right, you know. If I see two or more enemies approaching cap I am standing on I am noping out of there with my short bow like there is no tomorrow. While I am noping out I try to +1 my team on mid or where ever it is needed. Then I come back to from where I was chased out and it is usually unguarded. If there is only one I am more often then not able to hold my ground with the help of my fellow thieves (guild of thieves). Exactly and that's where thiefs strengths lie. Other classes cant just leave relatively safely like thief when being approached by to other opponents and are usually 1v2 while trying to escape and destroyed lol.This would be the best play even if thorf had a better burst potential.I think what find is the issue is if thief as a decapper/+1 burst class if ur +1ing with ur teammate and with both attacking the opponent it still takes a long time to down that opponent that should ring some bells toward either the sustain of the opponents or the burst potential of the class +1ing.Not saying thief needs a burst buff just that something needs to be looked at if those scenarios are occurring frequently. If they can't escape then they need enough sustain to wait for reinforcements , you are right saying that the wait aka time to kill cannot be too long for balance reasons obviously but that doesn't change the fact that sustain is necessary for some classes to counterbalance their inability to escape safely as a thief. If a spec invested in sustain then it should survive for enough time, say...40s...if now it's 1m+ then we need to reduce the sustain of such specs to reasonable levels and lower the kill time to 40s from 1m+, I hope thieves are not asking to lower the kill time to 0s like insta kill the +1 player even if he has full CD Uh I dunno, we certainly get instakilled. Why only us? You certainly get insta killed because your build lacks any means of escape, otherwise there is no way to insta kill a thief right now unless you play a "kill or die" spec and thief is afk or with no CD left to spare, either way if you play a burst spec with a zerker/marauder at 0 toughness you can expect always to live far less than somebody who specced in defense with a toughness amuletI am not sure about the amulets. You need power + precision/condi/ferocity (depends on build) to do damage.core thief with zerker or any other pure dmg amulet has I think 11k hp. This is unplayable, at least for me, because you really die instantly. To offset this you go first trait in daredevil which gives you additional vitality and rune of divinity and end up with 15k hpWith marauder or any other dmg amu with +500 vit on core thief you get les dmg, but you have 16k hp My question is: Would toughness amulet (+500 toughness because I need that dmg stats) be better that +500 vit amulet?

when you start you use what others deemed working, you learn to play it, after time you understand why its working and how its working,after you do that you start testing other things and theorycrafting other things. most people stop at copying builds from others, its fine. but there are some that just theory craft with no skill and no understanding of what and why, and you end up with what @"AldKai.9712" is doing.He died due to his mistakes, refused to learn WHY that happened, he didnt even learn how his enemies attacked him, refused to adopt his build and his stance against the enemies, and its all fine. Problem is he went to the forum with it, started whining and insulting others.Thiefs are indeed sheep, they copy what others streamers do, I suspect it might have something to do with the amount of people streaming thief gameplay.sind showed S/P insta every thief played it, D/P now everyone plays DP, it is how it is. Ur not wrong at all but the community as a whole is no different. The read or heard all the complaints of the outliers since patch and bam now high amounts of specs u never saw previously like core necro,burn guards, core rangers, weavers, holo etc.people hear or read what's op and flock to it, that's sheep like as well no?Regarding players that play thief like me who's played it half decade it doesn't really matter if a streamer or anyone says a set build works best if I don't like it or some traits I don't use them. When I played thief I never used rending shade as I disliked the fear for my playstyle and always used shadow rejuvenation even tho was regarded the worse trait, I like it.When I played dp which is mostly what I played I used CS and hidden killer with valkyrie rune, not meta at all nor a build any streamer was using. I never played s/d much cuz even if effective it sucks the fun out of playing thief. D4 and d5 whooo real fun skills to use lol the playstyle like most thief builds was spam s2 and s3... real fun.Anyway like a lot of other classes if u go thru thiefs traits ull see that usually every trait line has three traits used by all or most thieves cuz the rest are garbage so yeah uve got option to go s/d or pd etc but actual build deversity is low. Sindrener uses builds that are pretty obvious and commonly used that are just recognized when he does a vid stating he uses it himself. Sure some newer thiefs may copy his builds thst arnt familiar with the classes traits but as to the majority of thief players he isn't discovering any new secret builds really that haven't already been in use.Thieves players in general are no different tho then the players of other classes, the see or hear a build is the most OP on their class so they play it, just like all the core necros etc lol.Not only community, everything. Since time UghUgh discovered roasted meat and picked up pointed stick, monkey see monkey do.In Path of Exile "everybody" plays what streamers play. Because they play the game for living, if not for living it is very substantial part of their time anyway, so they have time, resources and knowledge to come up with things that works. And so you see some build that works and cuz you don't want fail and suffer you copy it, though you can make some minor adjustment to your personal prefernces. I don't consider it sheepishness.

Yes, a l2p issue. Sure. Your post is literally full of stupid assumptions. As I mentionned already (but you didn't read that) I am, shocker shocker,a thief that does NOT use your kitten shortbow. No sir! And my shadowstep is on CD because I used it to reach close fast. But I bet you're some master thief, just LAUGHING your kitten off at players that can't even run after you! They just took your points and they're laughing at you back, but hey, at least you can come here and calling others noobs for not playing with your copy-paste metabattle shortbow build. Just l2p! 1) If you had shortbow and they sent 3 people to your close, you could have zipped out of there and snowball rest of the map..then gone back and reclaimed your close2) Playing a thief without shortbow in PvP..it's like playing an ele with staff or a ranger without GS...don't blame the game for your lack of wisdow, every class must be played to its strength..not some lore background3) If you don't to play +1 decapper/burst then play something that suits your style You are literally a troll. Play thief, don't talk to me until you do.He is right, you know. If I see two or more enemies approaching cap I am standing on I am noping out of there with my short bow like there is no tomorrow. While I am noping out I try to +1 my team on mid or where ever it is needed. Then I come back to from where I was chased out and it is usually unguarded. If there is only one I am more often then not able to hold my ground with the help of my fellow thieves (guild of thieves).

I play teef and I lold xD

yes remove stealth. I am sick of rangers, dragon hunters, engineers, mesmers and whoever else using this kitten mechanic

Remember, the idea is that thief is only weak if there are classes that are too overpowered. Look at any other class besides thief and they also look weak. We want to balance by bringing the top down not the bottom up, or as I said already, we return to power creep. I agree dropping sustain on the current bunker is the best fix but knowing this company do u think that's gonna happen anytime soon. If by some miracle it does a nerf to thiefs burst probobly won't be far behind lol. I use sig of agility since assassin sig fix and 2.5-3k backstabs feelsbadman and that's with zerk amu lolI started playing only month ago so I will probably be wrong. But, isn't the separation of PvE and PvP balance (numbers, coeficients, etc) recent thing, something like January 2020? So now the balance team is gathering data and we will probably see some bunker busting action (I am looking at you unkillable engineers) and some tweaks to rangers and their pets.