Styles.7469

That's literally what ganking is for, and the unblockable lance still lets them gank you, you're just under the false impression that you will get by them every time. Most classes do enough damage still to dismount you anyway, so the mount, for this specific reason, is a really, really soft answer for that sort of thing. There are more than enough ways to avoid being ganked at your spawn anyway, mounts are just the lazy-complainer's way of dealing with it so they don't have to do something as simple as go out a different exit.

Get rid of mounts in WvW tbh.

Yeah, so much ignorance. BLOBBING IS ALL, ONLY BLOBBERS MATTER First of all, Lol Letoll. Second of all, Stormscar, you're wholly incorrect. Thank you for demonstrating the mindset of a player who does not have a firm grasp of the WvW game mode. sPvP and WvW have never been the same, and some of the best roamers I've ever encountered come from sPvP to WvW -specifically- to roam, either solo, duo, or with their "team". I have done this, and it has helped me become a better player in sPvP and WvW alike. What you regard as, "Nobody cares about roaming balance" equates to a gross misunderstanding on how WvW functions across every server and tier. The whole problem with your concept that roamers matter etc... Well. Just how fast does your reward track progress when you arent in a zerg ? If I catch a few good zergs a week I can be done with my reward track I need in no time. Otherwise im twiddling thumbs for over a month. To pure PvPers whoa rent necessarily chasing just the rewards this may not be as much of an issueMy reward track and pip gain is based off of participation just like everyone else. For instance: Once I get my participation to 6 all I really have to do every now and then, if I'm being lazy, is flip a camp or kill a player, and I only need to do that once every ten minutes for those two types of objectives to keep my participation up. As long as I keep my participation at 6, which I think is +195 or something for reward tracks, then it progresses the same regardless of whether or not I'm in a mindless blob or if I'm out solo roaming. Boosters and other items help increase the rate of my gain but none of them, as far as I know, benefit from -more- players being in my immediate vicinity. The only thing I can think of is if you're publicly commanding, and have like ten players in your squad? That grants four extra pips iirc, but meh, you still get more for playing on an outmanned map which grants +5, lol. Did you mean WxP gain?

Stormscar, I must apologize. I confused what you were trying to say with stupidity, and realize my error is that I didn't recognize it is much deeper than that. Now I see why I was told to stop trying to convince you how ridiculous you sound and I'm glad I'm willing to listen to reason, unlike you. Kudos and I bid thee adieu. I 100% guarantee you'll count this as some weird victory for yourself, so you go ahead and pat yourself on the back, bud. =) I'm sure you think you deserve it.

How exactly do I miss the point? You stated that 'lots' of people come to wvw to roam. I stated that those people are not relevant to making a point about how wvw should be balanced. This is just a lot of empty words that say nothing and do not address my second paragraph. Also, since when do you have to present empirical evidence like a kitten study to present an argument on forums? Also, you didn't present any empirical evidence yourself in the first place. So I don't know why the burden rests on me to do so. I presented an argument about queues and how many more people were playing organised back in 2012-2013. When there were many more guilds and commanders around. Its not alive when/if there's just roamers playing solo/in very small groups clowning around and not interacting with other people just like in open world. But we're playing a mmo btw /s Why you think the gamemode is dieing is wrong, and this is the point of my post. Your whole argument starts from the wrong premise, that WvW is dieing because roaming is not supported enough (in this case, through balance). However, roaming in the first place is a very minor part of WvW that shouldn't be even given attention until the main focus of the gamemode (large scale fights) is addressed. Yeah, we just happen to agree on my final point for different reasons Bruh...you're deeeeeense asf. xD The only thing you've done is assert your "point/s" without actually doing anything to support them. It's just a bunch of "WvW has to be played this because I said this is what it's for.", and, "If it's not played the way I say then it's not being played right!". It's circular logic at its very best, and that's reaching. There is no evidence in your posts that provides support for your side or refutes what I am saying. There are a lot of people that -do- come to WvW to roam which comprise the huge groups you say are the only part WvW is good for, and that makes them relevant to the overall balance because they're part of the population. WvW is not -only- about "large scale" fights, and is not just for large scale fights however. If you want to be technical, WvW is a conquest based game mode with PvP/PvE elements that allow several dozen players the opportunity to engage. Literally nowhere in its description does it say we should only fight large scale, or that it is for large scale only fights. Just because that's what you want it to be doesn't mean that is what it's for. Stop cherry picking, its unbecoming. Example: You take away the roamers, and people who like to roam, from these big fights you say are the only thing WvW is about, and the guilds which comprise these fights, and you then you end up minimizing the player population to a portion of players who only fight in large groups. Soon enough you can't have large scale fights, because then there may not even be enough players on a map to accomplish these ridiculous terms you're suggesting WvW only exists for. How can you actually not see that? What you suggested excludes -anyone- who roams, or engages in small scale skirmishes, from having a voice in how they feel the game should or could be balanced, and that only players like you, or even only you, should have a say in the way the game mode is operated. That is fundamentally wrong. So no, I didn't miss your point, you just completely and utterly failed to refute me or mine. Please read and interpret the rest of my posts as intended because if you can't do that then there is no need to continue, and you're just going to keep going to desperately get the last word in. What you're insinuating is that only...certain, special people are relevant, which proportionately equates to a small collective, which excludes the ability to make this about large scale fights. You have no foundation on who those people are, nor provided criteria to be met which makes them relevant, other than some conspiratorial criteria based on who they are because you may or may not like their youtube channel, or something to that effect, lol. That's the vibe I get off you. So that precedent can be dismissed. I encompassed a very well-established plurality of players, without dismissing the whole population, whom enjoy roaming in WvW and were/are negatively impacted by the most recent patch. The fact that what you thought I said about addressing your second paragraph as 'empty words' really just gives me greater insight as to how dense you are. I mean seriously, stop struggling so much, you're just going to drown faster. =/ You clearly don't understand the most rudimentary functions of debate, so again I guess you're just going to try and circumvent the process of an argument? I can't tell, just seems like you're rambling in your struggle to grasp a point you never made or one I made that you clearly don't understand. WvW should and can be balanced off of the entire player population, which includes roamers since you seem stuck on that premise (though you interpreted my point incorrectly). Unfortunately for your entire stance, roamers matter. If you think otherwise, you have to provide a reason why, but you can't because your argument right now is, "Roamers don't matter because I think they shouldn't because large scale fights are all this is about". Everything you're trying to present as fact is/was purely situational, and based on askew exacting standards regarding how you feel the game must be played, even versus a readily available descriptor, which I wouldn't be surprised if you took some meanings out of context (see also;cherry picking). So again, lol...ok. Please provide any reason why I think the game mode dying is wrong, because at this point I don't think you have fully grasped the meaning of why WvW is actually losing its player population and why fewer and fewer players are present. Whole guilds have left because of the introduction of mounts into WvW (that's a whole different gripe) so you're actually telling me this most recent patch, dedicated to down-toning skills and damages, and skill, isn't having an impact on groups as well as roamers? That's just two examples from me, there are a plethora of other reason i didn't address because I didn't think it was necessary to state the complete and utter obviousness. You literally can't offhandedly agree with me and then tell me I'm wrong, LOL!!!! My premise clearly encompasses that I believe this patch is doing, has done, and may continue to do more harm than good and that the base population is going to a.) accept it because they don't know any better (like you) or b.) going to accept it because there isn't a way to improve it and they must accept the lesser of two evils. I never suggested the sole reason that WvW is dying because "roaming balance" isn't supported. I actually, truly cannot see how you thought that is where I was going with this. Like...seriously, how you picked -THAT- out of everything I said as the one and only reason genuinely blows my mind...that's truly a disappointment. Finally, you are incorrect. You agreed with me because twas I who made the point in the first place (not like it hasn't been said repeatedly). The main difference is the reasons I think WvW is dying are tangible. You mostly want to believe it's dying for reasons to spite me because you're too thick to come up with a way to reasonably excuse why several of us on this thread thought what you said was stupid. You're grasping at straws and trying to ride my coat tails to make yourself look better, but it isn't actually achieving the effect you wanted. You're dense and what you said was stupid, so I suggest you should own up to it and learn.

I know PvPers who like to roam to, i dont know how that is an argument. Yeah, people come to WvW to roam. So? Some people come to wvw to ktrain late at nights and ppt, hit doors or man siege all the time without any intention of fighting players. Should the game mode be catered to those players if they have such a goal when playing wvw? No, the gamemode should be designed around what it is: large scale fights which are not represented in other game modes. Yeah, I should've explicitly said 'nobody RELEVANT cares about roaming balance'. It is irrelevant that servers have off-hours where there are few people playing. The game should not be designed around playing at 3 AM. I'm aware that good individual players make the strongest groups, I'm also currently in a wvw guild that has a lot of PvP players. However, I haven't heard any of them complain about roaming balance. Why? Because if they want well balanced small scale fights, they play pvp. Roamers mostly are people with over inflated egos who dont want a reality check from have their skill objectively assessed. Most of those 'OMG 1v5 MONTAGE' comes from fighting terrible players (which gw2 has plenty of). You don't pull those plays often at all vs equally skilled players. And where can you most often get matched vs equally skilled players? In pvp. The gamemode is dieing not because there is no roaming balance or not enough roamers. It is dieing because guilds have disbanded and veteran players have been leaving the game over the years after the initial influx of players who specifically bought GW2 for WvW in 2012-2013, when you had queues on all maps and players on voice almost all the time, even at off-peak hours. With design choices and lack of support, those players left and were replaced by the low-skilled gw2 players that ANet caters towards to, who dont want to put effort or learn the game. Everything in your first paragraph except the last line can be disregarded because you clearly missed the -entire- point. To address the final line in your first paragraph; Relevant people is entirely subjective. You're irrelevant to me, but your guild mates (if any) may say you're relevant to them. You fell flat on that, and that was not the point you were making initially, but I see what you're trying to do. As for your second paragraph. Lol...ok. So now instead of addressing the massive gaps in your logic you're going to circumvent the process and specify conditions to make your side of the argument correct, so it doesn't look like what you said was stupid. You're basing what you say on what, exactly? There doesn't even seem to be any empirical evidence present, or really anything that supports your position other than some weird, terribly askew opinion based on how you feel about roamers versus your own ego. Again, fell flat, so that's two strikes at least. =/ Finally, for your third paragraph, thank you for mostly stating the obvious. It has been proven time and time again that our voice does not matter as much as we want it to when it comes to WvW. We already know why we think the game mode is dying and we're addressing root causes, hence the posts on this thread contrasting why some of us think this most recent "balance" patch is more bad than good. But it's like beating a dead horse, and you just have to deal with the fact that some of us want to bitch and complain to blow off steam in the off chance someone of relevance actually takes note of our useful advice. You're mostly agreeing with what I was saying at the end, which is good for you because it means you're learning.

January 31st 2018. But who’s counting..I wanted to count but I lost track between the -years-. xD

When were alliances originally announced?

Yeah, so much ignorance. BLOBBING IS ALL, ONLY BLOBBERS MATTER First of all, Lol Letoll. Second of all, Stormscar, you're wholly incorrect. Thank you for demonstrating the mindset of a player who does not have a firm grasp of the WvW game mode. sPvP and WvW have never been the same, and some of the best roamers I've ever encountered come from sPvP to WvW -specifically- to roam, either solo, duo, or with their "team". I have done this, and it has helped me become a better player in sPvP and WvW alike. What you regard as, "Nobody cares about roaming balance" equates to a gross misunderstanding on how WvW functions across every server and tier. Did you forget some servers have such huge gaps in their "off hours" that there are sometimes -only- maybe up to ten players active on a given map? You would assume they don't care, now, that the build they've gotten really good at playing, took time to perfect, and enabled themselves the ability to play outmanned is now reduced to and forced to think, "Ok well lemmie peek around this corner safe and snuggled on my run-away mount to see if I have to book it from this one player and veteran guard." instead of the much greater mindset, "Well there's three of them and one AC, and one of me...how should I engage..." That's one player, one map, one server, one tier. Extrapolate that, and please tell me how no one cares about roaming balance, because it is directly tied to these group fights since we're already of the notion that great individual players, working together, make the best groups on the large scale fights. What you said was honestly one of the dumbest things I've seen said, and I'm disappointed there are even people who still think like that about a game mode that's taking the longest time to die in all of eternity.

One-shotting isn't a priority. One-shotting is actually quite boring. =P I knew this would come up eventually and that is not my stance. I was in a guild that practically re-invented the true stealth/sustain bombing meta (before Engi's got their huge stealth elite buffs). It got very boring after a while just walking into clouds of enemies with our 10-18 man comp and watching 40+ enemies get slaughtered (although it did make for great highlight reels, lol). We definitely got more pleasure out of hard, open engagements where mistakes actually mattered, especially from other groups of equable or greater skill level. The point is that it wasn't as boring or artificially engaging as what this patch has turned this game mode into. I understand that not everyone agrees, but you're taking more time, to do less damage, with less potential survivability, and overall lack of builds optimization options. The biggest threat and most discouraging factor are now Veteran Guards and Siege damage. It's honestly not even the players, in my opinion. It does not feel as rewarding when you don't even really have to worry about when to pop your skills and can actually just stand in the damage because the damage has been nerfed to such a great degree. 30-60 seconds of fighting is a long time, I don't know why that gets misconstrued. In 30 seconds there is enough time to rotate two, possibly three big bombs depending on your comp, position yourself, attempt to sustain and recover, etc. etc. etc. Why this mistaken conception which fights "last longer" is such a huge deal is beyond me, because looking at it from my angle that's an even more interesting point of view. The fights themselves aren't lasting that much longer WHEN GROUPS FINALLY ENGAGE, lol. And the only reason they last as long as they do is because you push a bit, then full disengage because you get scared and thin you're gonna die, rinse, repeat. I mentioned it in a previous post, it's a lot of stand-offish nonsense and more pirate y-ship than it's been for a while.

Look up the word condescending. Reflect. At a group level, the old meta rewarded piano skills far more than reactions and positioning. You formed your machine (x part scourge, y part firebrand, etc), practiced hitting buttons in sync, and then moved around the battlefield as a nearly invincible ship of death. Yes, sometimes clouding could take the ship down, but it wasn't a very fun way to play. Now you have to choose when many of your top-tier skills are used based on the situation around you. Skirmishers have more of a chance to prey upon mistakes at the edge, and use of terrain and positioning matter more. Count me among the players who like "strange things" like counterplay, build variety, and positioning. Random tangent - has anybody noticed pull-skills surging? I've seen several groups of 2-4 players pulling odd targets from the edges of the zerg. -Jeff Sorry, not sorry, to inform you but my level of condescension doesn't invalidate anything I said and isn't part of the issue. So really there's nothing to reflect just because you don't like the way I address things. =/ At a group level the old meta rewarded bad players and bad groups, and poor playing style, I agree, but only in very large numbers were groups like that significant or successful, and usually only against other bad players and groups. It also wasn't punishing to good groups and players, so I agree with that too. This is the third time I've said that now. In this "just the tip" meta thing we've got now because of the limited variety of effective builds, it is far more punishing to good groups and players to engage when outmanned because their skill is completely overshadowed by game mechanics which do not allow them to function based -on that skill- they developed nearly as much. Yes, they can still achieve some success, but now all of their practice, rotations, synchronizations, etc. etc. matter a lot less. That is, at least, until some things are inevitably re-buffed. At least pre-patch the rewards, though not very substantial outside of dynamic engagements and victories, weren't just a means to not be punished for developing a playstyle that progressed the way we play, based on how we play and not some boring, stale mechanical change. What you're saying exists now as the new meta has always existed...the way to fight effectively has not changed, but we're more hampered by game mechanics because kids wanted it to be easier to play without worrying about their ego getting smashed because they don't like to lose. More to the fact, you have to choose when to use these so called top tier skills? What? That's what good groups and player do/did already. Shifting to the now, we are more limited in our scope of acceptable, synergistic builds and compositions. I'm sure you meant well with what you said, but offhandedly agreeing with me in your own words without realizing it just helps me prove my point. How many balance patches have we been told something along the lines of , "We're changing the way this skill works to give it more viability."? This patch, yeah, killed a lot of those improved functionalities (like hot damn...the cooldowns w.t.eff actually with some of them) You have to appreciate when you tell me we have more build variety and counter-playable B.S. when the opposite holds a greater truth (now at least). More people are playing easier, low-tier, low skill-ceiling builds that vary (if at all) ever-so marginally that it's hard for me to believe this is a serious belief people share and don't appreciate the irony. Like...seriously there are more burn guards, reapers, and condi revs than I've ever seen, and I've been through three tiers of WvW since the patch dropped. Skirmishers and roamers have always had the opportunity to "prey upon the mistakes" and blah blah blah, and terrain advantages also always mattered. That hasn't changed either and people keep picking at points like that as if it isn't stating the obvious. Engaging more aggressively because there isn't as harsh a consequence isn't being aggressive, it's because there aren't as great of consequences for actually making mistakes. Pre-patch: Go in, try to capitalize on a mistake the enemy group made, boom, the enemy group pays for it.Post-patch: The same, but the enemy group passively doesn't have to worry about dying for making that mistake because there isn't a looming threat because of the mistake they made, and out the window goes the opportunity to learn from it. It's going to promote laziness in the long run. Effectually bad groups and players can get away with more (hmm...so can the group they're trying to "pick off") without worrying about consequences. Congratulations, again, everyone is getting a safer place to play.

I'm honestly trifled by this sentiment in its entirety because it wholly reads to me that you (and players like you) are someone who plays hoping button-mashing will win, because you do not or have not taken the time to figure out how to play in a manner that is efficient or progressive versus players or groups that are striving to perform similarly or better. This is is why I do believe to an extent that exclusivity is healthy for the environment of WvW, because in its most unfortunate fashion there are too many like you infecting WvW with this, "It's too hard make it easier so I can kill them but they can't kill me." mentality. You and your kind finally got your wish. Pressing 1 is basically the most effective way to play, at 1500+ units, after a few minutes of emote-spamming standoffs while both groups hope the enemy walks into range of their siege. =/ Your idea of "real fights" is so terribly skewed from the reality of how basic, general engagements happen (pre and post patch). You talk about "real fights" where they aren't decided on who bombs...correctly? What are you on about? Firstly, the entire point of coming up with a masterful composition and developing a modicum of skill, individually or as a group, is so you can produce the efficient output of damage, and beat the enemy, in the shortest amount of time. That is a verifiable fact on what drives success in these actual real fights. Clearly you have little-to-no idea on how hard some players and guilds work to develop these strategies and compositions, as indicated by your general premise. The mechanics of the game, after this horrid patch dropped, strictly forbids this from happening in as short amount of time as before, and the skills of the player mean less than they have in ages, but that has not changed the fact that instead of ten seconds, it now takes 25...but you're still trying to achieve the same effect. The extra 15 seconds is waiting to see who will walk into engagement range first. The skill of a player is even less rewarded now, and I'm not sure what or where your information comes from because, as a previously exclusive solo roamer, I've not been able to play nearly as successfully (I'm honestly a decent enough player), on any of the classes I cared to make myself good with. In small to mid-sized groups, you have to further rely on big bombs happening immediately and downing MORE players straight away. In Large groups (20+) it really comes down to who stuns first and which necro/rev/guard drops the most chilled/torment/burn. Again...this is not different than it was before, and I dare say factually it's a snoozefest most of the time. You fall under that classification of players in my previous post on this thread that think this patch is great, because you don't know any better. You're comfortable with some very strange things, and it even further reinforces my notion that you are not an avid WvWer, because you made no mention of what it's like to be on the receiving end. To be honest, I think you're just parroting an idea someone else came up with.

Large scale is all anyone is willing to run now, because for some reason we were told doing less of everything and taking more time to even engage is more exciting and rewarding (what rewards?) than how we've been used to playing for the past several years. There are alot of genuinely good players that took a lot of time and put more effort into working on their builds and playing skillfully than most people have put hours into getting good at understanding basic mechanics for PvE. Conditions are now at their absolute worst, when clearly the non-casual, actual WvW players have been strongly suggesting that they are and have always been a problem since the terribly executed 25-stack cap removal. Now that Power is down and some skills are literally only doing 10-20 damage, you straight up cannot run certain weapons or traits because they are wholly ineffectual versus ANY class, build, or player. The meta is entirely different because now all you have to do is walk into a giant blob and walk out of it and pulse conditions, with 30+ people around you. Less damage...who actually wants to do less damage? Push a little, pull all the way out, push a little, pull all the way out...yeah...so fun and engaging, makes for great gameplay =/ Good players are to be punished for playing smart, playing well, and having a good build? Seems stupid to me. =/ All these trash players keep getting rewarded for playing terribly, and that's a clear issue which doesn't seem to get addressed as often as it needs to; inclusivity is not the way to keep a dying player population by force feeding us some weird, pointless "balance" patch. We've voiced what we want, and what we may need. Where was this community driven vote or poll that even suggested we needed that? Oh...wait...those don't matter either, projects move forward and are only announced when it is decided for us and nearly finished before they even release the polls. Why less sustain and nerfed heals? A lot of nerds saying you shouldn't be able to do massive damage and also sustain...ok...ever stop to think maybe that player is actually just better than you? I know it's a hard concept to swallow, but it's the truth, there are players better than you that are just going to beat you every time. People driven by the desire to roam solo or 2v2 took a massive hit. You don't have to play skillfully anymore, you just have to get lucky now. Playing skillfully means pressing 1 for the most damage and who can stack the most conditions fastest. Boons...yeah. Lets counterplay the counterplayable counterplays. Stability is still useless in WvW ever since it was changed over to what it is now. There is practically no build diversity. At this point why not just force us to use the same trash amulets sPvP has? Because force changing the way we have to play is doing almost the same thing? At least then we'll know what to expect from the game mode that has gotten the least amount of attention overall, but somehow has been told we need these changes the most (hmm...) If group A has three bricks, and Group B has one brick, and you cut ALL bricks in half, Group A still has three times as many bricks as Group B...so where is this "balance" coming from when things still very clearly favor mindless, skill-less blobbing? There are so few groups now that can actually contest double their numbers...this is honestly the most disappointing patch that's been released, and a lot of people are fooling themselves into thinking it's good because they either don't know any better or they're just too willing to accept the lesser of two evils. Frankly this game isn't much worth playing anymore, and that's a huge disappointment because for like seven years now on multiple posts we've been told they're laying the foundation for something greater in the future. Still waiting...=/