Digit.1823

Pretty sure the argument is between players who feel excluded by li/kp groups and people telling them to (and rightfully so) make their own groups. What has Anet to do with any of this and any barriers Anet's putting up? This is a player/playerbase issue.

Except for the fact that everything you typed here is wrong. DPS meters were a blessing in disguise for a lot of classes and players to find out they weren't actually doing terrible in raids. Remember what happened to every class that wasn't Elementalist in the first Era of raids when the first bench marks were released? Oh right you don't otherwise you wouldn't type what you just did so i'll explain it. So in the beginning we only had a static golem to go by to get our first damage "benchmarks". Elementalist seemed to be ahead of the curve by a gigantic margin, literally talking 10k dps over the second class that came close. So what happened during raids to any dps player that wasn't an elementalist? They got kicked at the slightest sign of trouble in killing the boss. Only to find out later when DPS meters were widely used that a lot of Ele players were actually doing horrible, horrible damage, and that Dragonhunter over there we used to kick out of raids in favor of Eles wasn't actually doing that bad. So it was an incredibly eye-opening experience for a lot of players and ushered in a new Era where people were actually judged on their performance and not discriminated against by the class they played. I know what sounds better to me... P.s. Slow and steady might win a race, but actually doing damage and killing a boss in 4 minutes instead of 8 minutes also wins the race y'know. Food for thought.

So you're already acknowledging the fact that simply doing 1-1-1-1-1-1 on Daredevil would be better for you, so why didn't you just do that and get 24k on auto attack Daredevil? And what off-meta build are you using? Out of curiosity.

Well i must have missed that particular trait then, or my stupid ass simple never used it, then again it was over 4 years ago. So that functionality hasn't been available for quite some time. To make a thread about that now sounds like....a little bit late to the party?

How do you mean? They never followed you in the first place. And in the current iteration of these specific skills, if you press the skill button again after summoning the spirits they will actually teleport to your current location. So you can kinda make them follow you around albeit on a cooldown.

It's absolutely nice to hear that the people who didn't really need build templates are satisfied. Anet will be happy about this feedback. I'm sure we can say the same about the people who actually did need the build templates and were the ones asking for them, let's take a look on the forums and on reddit............oh.............

Amen brother! AAAAAAHMEEEEEEHN!

Because the devs have themselves admitted that they do not possess the knowledge nor the technical programming skills to fix the absolute maddening horror show that is the dungeon spaghetti code. Everyone responsible for the original dungeons are no longer employed with Anet, thus you can be certain there will never be anything done to them anymore. Maybe you should've been a bit more informed if you are indeed such a veteran player. Have a good day.

That trailer is absolute eye-candy. Well done! Can't wait to see how the teams will perform during the ERP.

This topic will basically go the same way as the thread we had last time, this is the thread she posted a while ago: https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/11645/kittymarks-the-kitten-girls-comprehensive-benchmark/ TL;DR Summary: She posted a ton of really bad builds with blatantly wrong rotations, people talked about it. White knights defended, sane people pointed at flaws and tried to discuss, Kitty basically only ever responded with "But if i don't test this, then who will?!" and in the end the thread faded into obscurity. As it should have, and as this one will also do. Everything you ever need to know how this will end up can be found in the old thread. But that's just my opinion.

After reading through the recent comments in this thread the entire discussion between you and x amount of other posters here can basically be boiled down to you having a severe, SEVERE, lack of understanding how different mentalities work in whatever kind of environment. Everything you said about being free to play how you want is 100% true. As long as you play solo. You are free to play how you want, that is until you meet up with other players and attempt team-oriented content. Then it comes down to what the group mentality is. Group mentality = chill? Then just relax, sit back a bit and clear the content on the pace that is comfortable for you and your party/squad members. Group composition and meta set-ups don't really matter here, as long as you clear the content even if it is at a slower pace. Group mentality = exp? Then make sure you are up for it because these groups will probably go with meta compositions and are there to clear content quickly and efficiently. Both mentalities are viable and are not toxic at the core. It's when the two different mentalities collide that the problems occur because they are very hard to mix. You want some "Double-Longbow-Dragonhunter coming in with Doom sigils on his weapons so every time he weapon swaps he does a whopping 3 stacks of poison in full nomad gear" joining your exp party? That idea is not gonna fly buddy. I hope you understand why. I'm curious about this as well: Do you understand that there are also people out there that get satisfaction and joy out of doing something in the most efficient way? It's not even toxic, I'm in statics like this and even then the atmosphere is really laid back and chill but because the skill level is high enough we can still clear quickly and efficiently. I mean there's nothing wrong with being good at something and enjoying it as well. P.s. Also you maybe wanna look into your "conspiracy-idea-kinda" rants because some are just...just no...just really no...

No one will do it if there are no specific rewards, at least not enough people to warrant the developing effort. Fractal t1, t2 and t3 are populated because they have the potential to give same drops as t4 and CMs, but even then, guess which tier gets the most LFG posts? People will always try to maximize their profit and play the content at what level gives the most drops, even if they supposedly aren't ready for it (again, fractals are a great example of this - t4 can be a pain to pug). This is just how people work, and Anet is better off working on "normal mode" itself. But then again, this topic has been done in this forum, over and over and over again. MINOR EDIT: there are a dozen unique skins, auras and a couple currencies only available to fractal CMs, but do not let this detract you from the point, that is, a player can still get all the major drops from fractals such as golden weapons by playing up to t3, it's just a massive effort that even justifies an inexperienced player going straight to t4's so that said player can have an easier time with rewards and a harder time with the encounters. Yeah but here's the thing Maxwel: Less effort = less rewards. I mean the only specific rewards i can think of that you might be referring to is everything related to legendary armor. The skins specific to the raids (because let's face it, we're playing fashion wars 2 not guild wars 2 :# ) Mini's and infusions. But then comes the question Why should people get those for less effort? A question i have yet to see being actually tackled with decent arguments without someone just yelling "hUrR duRR diSgUStiNg eLiTistS". I'm cool with the whole "ez mode shtick" because i do believe you will get more people into raids that way (even though we both know that there are a myriad of factors why Anet is not committing to this). Also look i know why you're trying to make the point with fractal reward structure and it is a good argument, it truly is. But Raids =/= Fractals. And because of that the argument from the fractals point of view just doesn't stick with me. Even if only for the fact that Raids are currently the method of obtaining legendary PvE armor, an option that fractals sorely lacks. Surely you've read the forum posts maxwell where people basically only desire an easier mode for raids simply to get legendary armor with less effort, something they unfortunately only admitted after probing a bit though. (And i've been part of that discussion, not gonna dig up the whole tale here). Also, let's just theorize a bit here. Let's say Easy Mode Raids ever sees the light of day. Then that means Raids has 2 whole difficulty options where Fractals still has 4 levels of difficulty. 4 levels is easier to spread out and balance rewards then just 2, that's just basic math. So how would you then propose you spread the rewards over just 2 difficulty levels? I mean you know how i feel about it, i already threw in my 2 cents. :p So... remove the skill requirement and leave the gold rewards and just "throw a few regular ascended drops in there every once in a while".I'm sorry just what else do you think drops in raids? Hey get that pointy finger away from me with the whole "remove the skill requirement" bs. Take that up with the OP. Otherwise my reply to your question about drops: Ok.

Sure there will be rewards! Just no LI/LD/Raid specific achievements/Wing specific skins. You want those, go do raids as they are currently intended (or "normal" mode raids). For the rest you can have it all for all i care, get the gold, the drops. Heck throw a few regular ascended drops in there every once in a while. Should be fine.

While your suggestion is appreciated, and please don't get me wrong, this suggestion has been made before and has been shot down before. There are a lot of insta kill mechanics in raids as it is, you cannot balance around those simply by "reducing damage". I mean how does one reduce something that kills you instantly regardless? Also, if the damage thresh hold is too low then why bother avoiding mechanics anyway? I mean if the green on VG only does 10% health damage instead of the current 70% (or somewhere around that number) then why ever bother going for the green circle? Might not be the best example since even with 70% damage it gets out healed anyway, but i hope you get the point i'm trying to make. See simply reducing damage in order to force people to learn mechanics is a bad suggestion in and of itself since it promotes nothing but lazy game play. Imagine someone coming from super easy mode to normal mode and then suddenly finding out he actually has to run around Sabatha's flame wall since he can no longer face tank it? Or finding out that the green @ vg actually does quite a bit of hefty damage? Or what about Slothasor's poison? I mean if you get super low damage anyway then you might just as well drop it on top of the group if it doesn't really matter, right? Oh how i imagine people would react if someone from super easy mode comes into normal mode slothasor and just drops the poison smack dab on the group because hey: "uuh, that's what we always do in super easy mode". Sounds a bit silly, but guaranteed that this is going to happen. And as a final small example, how does one reduce damage on Dhuum's soul split when you need to do a green circle? If you don't grab enough orbs that's game over, at least that's how it currently works. How would one go about fixing that kind of mechanic for an easier setting? You either can't, or you need to remove it all together but then the point of having people learn mechanics on lower difficulties has failed. Of course one shot mechanics should stay, as for how they function I'd consider them to be more mechanical than just a simple dmg output. I don't think you can't balance it. For Sloth just reduce the green poison dmg but keep the dmg from the poison you drop the same. Yes you can balance it, the idea that this isn't possible derives from the radical stance against the idea of an easy mode. For Dhuum it's the same. Just reduce the dmg on things that are not mechanical. Failing in collecting enough orbs will still be game over. And so on. Personally I feel like you don't even try to wrap your head around it. Claiming the bosses can't be balanced in any other way as they are right now is just silly. But isn't keeping damage the same a counter point to easy mode? I mean wasn't the whole point you tried to make that everything got reduced damage so it would be easier to learn mechanics in "super easy mode"? You're missing the psychological point though, i mean if people get conditioned to keep in mind that something is damaging but survivable then to some degree they will learn to ignore it if the situation allows it. But then when you turn that same damaging component into an instant kill mechanic i bet you people are going to get caught off-guard by it and then they basically will have to re-learn to some extent. So why not just skip that whole "middle-man" section and just let mechanics be mechanics and damage be damage? We already have quite a good set up with bosses of varying difficulties at the moment. The latest addition, Wing 6, is also an arguably easy experience compared to some of the older raids which is perfectly fine. If anything i would argue that Wing 6 is a perfect place to start raiding considering it's easy-to-get-into setting. Addendum: Personally i feel like you don't even try to understand any other perspective then your own. (See what i did there?) I've read your commentary to some of the other posters and it really just seems like you're not the person to have a reasonable discussion with anyway. More like, you see us as nothing more then opponents to be conquered in some silly battle of wits or something. It just stinks of immaturity. I mean honoustly: "You don't ask me to watch my tone, that's for starters, you're not a mod and if you can't handle it then report, but don't expect me to follow a stranger on the internet." Really?...So you're not capable of rational unemotional discussion unless someone is literally a mod on these forums and directly asks you to watch your tone? You can't do that when someone else who isn't a mod asks you this when it's been clear you're being very antagonistic against several people already? I mean...what? It's quite odd though right? I mean..."Grrrrrr rawr i will not follow anything a stranger says on the internet, growl!!1" But then you expect us to follow you and the points you're making while you are, in fact, a stranger to us? Seems...hypocritical....no? You're not special Clyan...you're just not. Everything you said here has been said before. That's why multiple people have already told you to go read the whole thread because everything you brought up has been done-and-dealt-with before. Literally everything...even your immature response at this very moment has been done before okay? You're not the hero to help the pro-easy mode crowd finally get rid of us filthy anti-easy mode monsters because you, and only you, can bring forth the indisputable arguments that will finally win this glorious battle of wits. It's hilarious to even entertain the thought.

While your suggestion is appreciated, and please don't get me wrong, this suggestion has been made before and has been shot down before. There are a lot of insta kill mechanics in raids as it is, you cannot balance around those simply by "reducing damage". I mean how does one reduce something that kills you instantly regardless? Also, if the damage thresh hold is too low then why bother avoiding mechanics anyway? I mean if the green on VG only does 10% health damage instead of the current 70% (or somewhere around that number) then why ever bother going for the green circle? Might not be the best example since even with 70% damage it gets out healed anyway, but i hope you get the point i'm trying to make. See simply reducing damage in order to force people to learn mechanics is a bad suggestion in and of itself since it promotes nothing but lazy game play. Imagine someone coming from super easy mode to normal mode and then suddenly finding out he actually has to run around Sabatha's flame wall since he can no longer face tank it? Or finding out that the green @ vg actually does quite a bit of hefty damage? Or what about Slothasor's poison? I mean if you get super low damage anyway then you might just as well drop it on top of the group if it doesn't really matter, right? Oh how i imagine people would react if someone from super easy mode comes into normal mode slothasor and just drops the poison smack dab on the group because hey: "uuh, that's what we always do in super easy mode". Sounds a bit silly, but guaranteed that this is going to happen. And as a final small example, how does one reduce damage on Dhuum's soul split when you need to do a green circle? If you don't grab enough orbs that's game over, at least that's how it currently works. How would one go about fixing that kind of mechanic for an easier setting? You either can't, or you need to remove it all together but then the point of having people learn mechanics on lower difficulties has failed. Unfortunately you have the festival raid with Freezie. The mechanic are not instant death, however they are punishing if you stand in them. This festival raid in my opinion is a very strong reason why an easy mode raid would work. I had pugged this bad boy since the start of the festival with very few problems. When problems occurred we made adjustments and then succeeded. Gw2 efficiency may not be the best way to measure the success of this either, since this is a festival, which is generally very popular content to begin with, allowing free to play accounts and other accounts not attached to efficiency to hop and try the content.Yeah cool, but Freezie's mechanics were not made with insta death in mind anyway so ...eh.... Also i would argue that you should be careful with the "in my experience" argument, because (hurr durr) in my experience pugging Freezie is absolute hell if i am not on a support/healing profession. Both our viewpoints are equally valid. The pug groups i had people are still oblivious to mechanics, like letting the snowball stack on top of the team without running away, standing in the blue frozen lines, eating the kamehamefreeze wave. (On EU btw, dunno if that matters) Funnily enough, the point actually is because me being on support/healer is the fact you're able to carry so ridiculously hard anyway is why we get the kill regardless of the absolute trash players in the squad. Hell maybe even the fact that being able to carry so hard is what makes people lazy, because hey i can just ignore mechanics anyway. I dunno...seems like i would appreciate having your experience instead of my current one.